You can’t have your coffee too

I talked with a local pastor about his new church plant last week.

I thought this was interesting. What’s your take on it?

“We want to be progressive,” the pastor said. “Our music is praise and worship music along with singing out of the hymnal. It’s a combination of the two.”

Then immediately after that comment his wife made sure to say, “But you won’t see us bringing coffee into the church. We’re bringing reverence into church.”

Does coffee take away reverence in church? Is progressive all about singing “praise and worship?” Can you be progressive and reverent at the same time – or are the two mutual exclusive? What makes a church progressive and what makes it reverent?

It was interesting that they said they wanted to reach out to the unchurched but then complained about visiting another local church where people sitting around them were talking during the service.

Could it be that those people were unchurched and weren’t aware of our “Christian way of doing things?”

There was a couple at my church yesterday that was sitting behind me and talking during the service as well. Personally I just tuned them out, but not everyone can do that. I know several people turned around and looked at them, but I wonder how many actually stopped and welcomed them. They didn’t look like anyone I recognized. I would guess it was one of the first times at our church. Hope they weren’t kicked out or sent to time-out for talking.

And it was good

I finished Rob Bell’s Velvet Elvis the other day. Wow.
I told a friend, this puts my faith (or what I want it to be) into words.
I think I underlined the entire last chapter of the book.
I loved the comparison between Adam in the garden and Jesus after his resurection.

“Thinking he was the gardner, she said…”
“John wants us to see a connection between the garden of Eden and Jesus rising from the dead in the garden. There is a new Adam on the scene and his is reversing the curse of death by conquering it.”

When we think about creation, remember that God calls it “good.”
The word is used throughout the Creation narrative to say that God perceives his creation as “good.”

“The God said, ‘Let the land produce vegetation: seed bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.’ And it was so. The next verse is significant: The land produced vegetation. Notice it doesn’t say, ‘God produced vegetation.'”

God empowered creation to do something.
We are empowered with loads of potential. All of creation is.
And this is for all you “tree-huggin-haters” 🙂 (who I admit, I used to be one of you):
“God then makes people whom he puts right in the middle of all this loaded creation, commanding them to care for creation, to manage it, to lovingly use it, to creatively order it… They are in intimate relationship with their enviroment. They are enviromentalists. Being deeply connected with their enviroment is who they are. For them to be anything else or to deny their divine responsibility to care for all that God has made would be to deny something that is at the core of their existence.
That is why litter and polution are spiritual issues.
And until that last sentence makes perfect sense, we haven’t fully grasped what it means to be human and live in God’s world.”
DOH!

Bell also talks about the Roman way of life during the early church.
Caesar Agustus believed that he was the son of a god. He inagurated a 12 day celebration called Advent to celebrate his birth. Wait a minute? That sounds familiar.
He used slogans like, “There is no other name under heaven by which men can be saved that that of Caesar.”

“It was at this time, in the world, that the Jesus movement exploded among an ethnic minority in a remote corner of the empire. These people claimed their leader was a rabbi who had announced the arrival of the kingdom of God, had been crucified and had risen from the dead and appeared to his followers. One of their favorite slogans was, ‘Jesus is Lord.'”
“They took political propaganda from the empire and changed the words around to make it about their Lord.”

Another interesting aspect was that the church didn’t try to argue or prove Jesus’ resurrection. For one, most people had seen him resurrected or knew of someone who claimed to have seen him. Another reason, many other people had claimed to rise from the dead at that time. “Julius Caesar himself was reported to have ascended to the right hand of the gods after his death.” Also, the church realized that arguments rarely persuade people, but experiences do. “Living, breathing, flesh and blood experiences of the resurection community. To the outside world, it was less about proving and more about inviting people to experience this community of Jesus’ followers for themselves.” People were changed not by arguments, but by the lives they saw Christians living.
Oh how I wish others would see that in me.

“And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them that there were no needy persons among them. What was the result of the resurrection according to Luke? ‘No needy persons among them.'”
“To be a part of the church was to join a countercultural society that was partnering with God to create a new kind of culture, right undr the nose of the caesers.”

And for the church to continue today, we have to learn to give ourselves away.

“The church is at its best when it gives itself away.”
The church doesn’t exist for itself; it exists to serve the world. It is not ultimately about the church; its about all the people God wants to bless through the church. When the church loses sight of this, it loses its heart.”

One more great point and then I’ll wrap up (I sound like a teacher or preacher – ha).
“Another truth about the church we’re embracing is that the gospel is good news, especially for those who don’t believe.”

Woah. Where are we going with that.
Bell uses this illustration. Lets say Person X becomes a Christian. She’s surrounded by neighbors of other faiths and backgrounds. Person X should be becoming a better person now that they are a Christian. She is becoming more generous, more compassionate, more forgiving, more loving. Her neighbors should all be thrilled with her new faith.

“The good news of Jesus is good news for Person X. It’s good news for Person X’s neighbors. It’s good news for the whole street. It’s good news for people who don’t believe in Jesus. We have to be clear about this. The good news for Person X is good news for the whole street.
If the gospel isn’t good news for everybody, then it isn’t good news for anybody.
And this is because the most powerful things happen when the church surrenders its desire to convert people and convince them to join. It is when the church gives itself away in radical acts of service and compassion, expecting nothing in return, that the way of Jesus is most vividly put on display.”

I’m going to stop there. I’m anxious to read your comments. Chew on it. I’ve been chewing for a couple days.

This Ain’t Your Daddy’s Church

This ain’t your father’s church

By JONATHAN BLUNDELL Daily Light staff writer
Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:16 PM CDT

You walk into a large dimly-lit ballroom at the Waxahachie Civic Center and notice a hard rock music video playing on a large screen in the center of the room.
People are milling around the room, drinking coffee and meeting new friends.
Images of crosses, Jesus and candles flash on the screen as the video continues.
Once the video fades to black a group of musicians walk on stage wearing shorts, t-shirts and flip flops.
They begin to rock out to “Jesus music” and as the lead guitarist breaks into a guitar solo, you realize this is something different.
This is Encounter – and this ain’t your father’s church.
Utilizing a live band, a different setting and relevant messages during their Sunday gatherings, Encounter has more than doubled in size since it began meeting at the Civic Center last September.
“We try and show people that Christ is relevant in their lives today,” Pastor Brian Treadway said. “The setting’s a little different – we turn the lights down and let you bring coffee in during the service. The format’s a little different than a traditional church but we’re not compromising the message.
“In the traditional church setting, I think people have been turned off by a feeling that they have to somehow measure up. People feel like they have to act a certain way or else they’ll be judged and condemned. People are also turned off by the language the church uses, the technical terms or Christianese. There’s a sense that the people in churches are plastic or phony and no one wants to be part of a group where they have to pretend about who they are.”
Encounter began nearly two years ago as a Saturday night outreach service at Ovilla Road Baptist Church.
“There was a group within the church who recognized that many in today’s generation have tried traditional church and it’s not meeting their needs,” Treadway said. “It doesn’t match their style or meet their needs. Many have been hurt, burned in or bored by church, so they just sit at home and turn their backs on church and on God.”
The leaders of ORBC saw a need and decided to create a service for those the traditional churches were not reaching out to.
“Our goal was to create a place for the people turned off by traditional church to find a place they would be accepted and where they could find Christ – and fall back in love with him or fall in love with him for the first time,” Treadway said.
After nearly a year of Saturday night services in Ovilla, the church leaders made the decision for Encounter to venture out on its own, with a Sunday gathering.
“We made the transition to Sunday after I felt an inward calling and the other leaders in the church recognized we would be more effective as a separate church,” Treadway said. “Our goal is to simplify the church and to remove the bureaucracy you see in many of today’s churches. When you come to church it shouldn’t be about what clothes you’re wearing, who’s sitting by who or who’s on what committee. It’s about a relationship with God.”
And Encounter is built around strengthening relationships, both with God and with mankind.
“People today have a longing for developing relationships,” Treadway explained. “That’s why Starbucks, Barnes and Nobles and other places have developed places where people can come and sit, talk and enjoy community. We live in a hi-tech world but there’s a longing for hi-touch. We want to encourage an environment where people are sharing their lives. We don’t have it nailed yet but I think it’s encouraging to see people meeting in homes instead of in an education building. There’s something about a home that’s warm and comforting and conclusive to sharing life.”
To improve those relationships, Encounter has worked to focus on community groups, a change from the traditional Sunday school hour. Groups meet in homes during the week and focus on a variety of topics, including overcoming addiction, creating community and a group specifically geared toward new believers.
“We were looking for a change in the traditional Sunday school format,” Treadway said. “We were looking for a more fluid format. People have a desire to live in community and in transparency with others. We want to provide a level and environment for relationships rather than sitting and listening to someone teach every week.”
Treadway admits that his passion for Encounter comes not only from a higher calling, but from his own spiritual struggles.
“My own experiences following Christ had become very rule based and routine and a man made standard,” Treadway said. “Once I discovered that I’m accepted by grace, it changed my perspective. As a church we want to break the bondage of legalism. Many people approach their walk that way. Our drive is to set people free from the bondage of rule-based relationships. We want people excited about church and God and want them to serve out of passion and not duty.”
When the church began, 80 people from ORBC joined Treadway to start Encounter. Today, more than 200 people meet weekly at the Waxahachie Civic Center.
“The cowboy churches are similar in approach – just a different flavor,” Treadway said. “Other pastors in the area have been very supportive. I’ve heard some concerns, but upon their own investigation they see we’ve changed the method, but in doctrine we’ve remained the same. When we focus on Christ, that’s where we’ve seen the greatest growth.”
And like the Cowboy Churches, affiliation with a particular denomination is limited.
“You won’t see the word Baptist on our signs or in our advertising,” Treadway said. “You won’t hear the phrase on Sunday morning because it’s one of the stumbling blocks people have with the church today. Our only affiliation with Southern Baptists is our basic doctrinal belief and the fact that until September of this year, we receive financial support from the Baptist General Convention of Texas. They understand that we won’t advertise our Baptist connection and they don’t have a problem with that.”
And while building relationships with others at Encounter, Treadway also encourages members to build their relationship in the community as well.
He tells the story of walking into a mega-mart and getting help from none of the employees.
“If the employees ignore the customers then I think they’re missing the point,” he explains. “In the same way I have to ask myself, ‘Has the church of the living God been guilty of the same thing? Are we too busy with staying in fellowship with one another and avoiding the evils of the world that we absolutely miss the point?’ Being a follower of God means getting out of your comfort zone. Scripture tells us to love the Lord your God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself. We get so caught up in our own problems that we miss the point.
“We want our church to be involved in every aspect of life,” Treadway said. “How can we make an impact on the community? The essence of the Gospel is loving God and loving others more than yourselves. We should be rubbing shoulders with those in need and looking for ways we can serve outside our walls.”
The church has recently worked with Cowboy’s House in Oak Cliff and is looking to do future projects with Waxahachie CARE and other groups helping the needy in Ellis County.
Treadway said Encounter is simply a new approach to tell the Gospel story.
“We haven’t taken any church and copied it,” Treadway said. “Encounter is more of a conglomerate or melting pot of different ideas. I feel like we’re on the front edge of what God wants us to do.”
In the future, the leadership of Encounter hopes to be able to meet in its own building. Due to scheduling conflicts at the civic center, the church is occasionally forced to meet in other facilities.
“We’d love to have our own facility,” Treadway said. “Something that is non-traditional looking and something that allows for a flexible worship environment and an interactive experience with Christ. We also want a place where young people can come and meet during the week and our children’s ministry can continue as a vibrant part of our church. Our children’s ministry is a great draw to the church and Brad Hayes has done an amazing job incorporating his different characters to help tell the stories of the Bible in a way the children can understand. Kids are excited about coming to church. And it’s set up like a junior-Encounter. There’s lots of movement and activities they learn with.”
The rapid growth of the church has been a struggle for Treadway and the church leadership, but you won’t hear him complain.
“Our growth has occurred much faster than we originally thought,” Treadway said. “So we struggle with training and finding leaders. That’s been a challenge. The facilities we’re meeting in now have been a blessing. The civic center has been a great place to meet. But we’ve put together a team and dedicated so many of our resources to finding our future facility that my workload has greatly increased. But even with the extra work, I wouldn’t trade it for anything.”
Treadway finds reward in his work while watching lives change.
“The reward is in seeing lives changed,” Treadway said. “That’s the biggest joy. Getting to see marriages brought back together, hearing people say ‘Now I love coming to church,’ people finding their ‘passion groove’ – those are the things you think about as you lay your head down at night and say ‘Thank you God.’ ”
Encounter meets each Sunday at the Waxahachie Civic Center at 10:30 a.m.
For more information, visit www.encounterthis.com.

Christian is a poor adjective

This is from Thomas:

In yesterday’s Metro American “trendspotter” Marian Salzman responded to the question :: “What trends are you predicting for the next 5 years?”

Americans have become so decidedly religious that religion is going to become a very serious problem between the US and the rest of the world. Americans are living in a country where CHRISTIAN RETAIL is a shopping option, CHRISTIAN FOOD is a snack food option – there’s a chain called “Chick-fil-a” – it’s Christian chicken.

Oh my goodness!

What happened to being in the world? If all I do is “CHRISTIAN” then where is the reality? where is the truth in being the salt and the light?

Reject Christian ghettoes!

I just read chapter three of “Velvet Elvis” last night by Rob Bell and it talks a lot about this.

“The prophet Isaiah had a vision of heaven, and in his vision angels were shouting, ‘Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory.’

The Hebrew word for glory here is kavod, which means weight or significance.

The whole earth is full of the weight and significance of who God is.

The writer David said, ‘The earth is the Lord’s and everything in it.’

According to the ancient Jewish worldview, God is not somewhere else. God is right here. It is God’s world and God made it and God owns it and God is present everwhere in it.”

“But God is always present. We’re the ones who show up. For the ancient Jew, the world is soaked in the presence of God. The whole earth is full of the kavad of God. For the writers of the Bible, this truth is everywhere. It’s here. It’s there. It’s all over.”

“Paul affirms the truth wherever he finds it.”

“If it is true, if it is beautiful, if it is honorable, if it is right, then claim it. Because it is from God. And you belong to God.”

“Jesus is the arrangement. Jesus is the design. Jesus is the intelligence. For a Christian, Jesus’ teachings aren’t to be followed because they are a nice way to live a moral life. They are to be followed because they are the best possible insight into how the world really works. They teach us how things are. I don’t follow Jesus because I think Christianity is the best religion. I follow Jesus because he leads me into the ultimate reality.”

“It is dangerous to label things ‘Christian.'”

“The problem with turning the noun into an adjective and then tacking it onto words is that it can create categories that limit the truth.”

“Something can be labled Christian and not be true or good.”

“A Christian political group puts me in an akward position: What if I disagree with them? Am I less of a Christian? What if I am convinced the “Christian” thing to do is to vote the exact opposite?”

“Christian is a great noun and a poor adjective.”

“I was playing in a punk band a few years ago, and we were playing clubs and bars and festivals and parties. People would regularly ask us if we were a Christian band when they found out I was a pastor. I always found that question a bit odd. When you meet a plumber, do you ask her if she is a Christian plumber?”

“My understanding is that to be a Christian is to do whatever you do with great passion and devotion.”

What’s your take?

Wayne Hamilton at Encounter

Political consultant and lobbyist Wayne Hamilton was at Encounter today. Brian’s message was in large part an interview with the former party executive (or as some have called – miniature Karl Rove). I thought it was a great addition to the series on Revolution. I didn’t take many notes from Wayne. Not sure why not, but I guess I didn’t want church to become “work.”

Anyways I thought a great point that Brian’s been making and Wayne helped emphasize was that the key to being effective in politics (and the world around us) as a Christian is to invest in those around you.

“You have to earn the right to speak to people,” Hamilton said. “You can change the world one person at time.”

Hamilton didn’t mention any political parties or candidates that he’s worked for but did mention one man who leads a pro-life organization. I can’t recall the name of the group but the man has gone from Congressman to Congressman and worked to implement things like parental notification and parental consent for minors.

There were no protests, rallies or fighting with the Congressmen. Only going office to office, explaining his point of view and working with the elected officials.

Reminds me of Bono’s work with Africa.

The leader of the organization is a part of the Catholic church and Hamilton made the point that he wished many of his evangelical brothers and sisters would take note.

Brian also asked Hamilton if there was a Biblical story or passage that summed up a proper Christian’s response to politics and government.

Hamilton pointed to the story of Daniel and said that Daniel simply kept serving the Lord no matter what administration was over the country or who’s authority he was under. He simply prayed and followed God and waited for God to change the king’s heart.

Brian added:

“My kingdom,” said Jesus, “doesn’t consist of what you see around you. If it did, my followers would fight so that I wouldn’t be handed over to the Jews. But I’m not that kind of king, not the world’s kind of king.” – John 18:36 (MSG)

2 Chron 7:13&14 says, “If I ever shut off the supply of rain from the skies or order the locusts to eat the crops or send a plague on my people, and my people, my God-defined people, respond by humbling themselves, praying, seeking my presence, and turning their backs on their wicked lives, I’ll be there ready for you: I’ll listen from heaven, forgive their sins, and restore their land to health.” (MSG)

Rain is a picture of peace and joy. The peace and joy in Israel had been cut off as it has for America.

Everything they (we) have worked for was gone. There’s a cancer of selfishness in our society.

But if we want to change our country or change the world, we must start with ourselves. We must change ourselves and stop being concerned with our own needs and problems. We must realize that we are the ones that need to change.

If we sit back and point fingers no change will ever take place.

We must turn from our wicked ways and let Christ live through us.

It’s not enough to sit and watch or sit and complain.

When God changes hearts, that’s when real change occurs.

Brian ended with the story of the 22 year old girl helping immigrants in Arizona.

What the American church should know

More from the e-mail files:

Ask yourself: Why are we less intentional about the gospel than our missionary friends overseas?

Does your first answer sound like excuse making? Mine sure does.

What do you think a group of missionaries would say if you asked them the question, “What 3 things do you think the churches in America need to know about missionary work?” Pastor Dave Hegg of Corona Evangelical Free Church in southern California asked this question to a group of American missionaries in Europe. Here’s the first thing these missionaries wanted the American church to know (and by “know,” they meant “understand” and “be devoted to” and “live”):

#1: We wish churches in America would do “church” the way we do missions.

Here’s what they meant: As missionaries, their focus is actually fairly simply. They plan their days, invest their energy, and focus their lives on this simple strategy. Make contact with unbelievers in the course of your everyday lives; invest time in turning contacts into friends; labor through the Word and prayer to see God transform friends into believers; teach and mold believers into disciples, who then start the cycle all over again, making contact with unbelievers in their world.”